Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister
welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
September the 20th 2019 strong can be a
unique piece now you’re off the Bitcoin
unconfessed a double one Bitcoin equals
one Bitcoin affected by selling best
guest in the space
don’t FOMO on all coins oh yeah we’re
gonna talk about that but yeah we got
the best guest based in the space here
we got guy Swann we got Christian who I
just saw in person and we’ve got Jeff
Andrew here baby and yeah we’ve got
three guys on the show again
so con that like button this we get
Bitcoin here we are let’s just jump into
the crypto side of things we’re gonna
get into the big financial markets in a
second but I I’m gonna throw I’m gonna
toss it in the Christian here I was
gonna start with Jeff and I’m gonna
start a Christian Christian is it all
season again you’ve been traveling
around the world have people trying to
Punk you up on alts because all its have
pumped like the last four days what’s up
with that Christian I don’t think it’s
arts all season and actually think
everything was probably gonna go down
soon but not financial advice I don’t
know like people people are going to try
to pump this stuff up it’s not all
season so prolonged like you know gains
just a few days I don’t I don’t buy it
alright alright you’re not you’re not
pumped on the alts you’re not faux
mowing on all it’s good that’s one of my
sayings
okay guys Juan what have you heard on
the streets yes so I think I mean just
like Christian said four day is that
thing that’s a stretch like every once
in a while you go through particularly
if it’s been flat for a while you’re
gonna have those spikes up now I’m not
because the hype cycle was so ridiculous
in 2017
I’m not even leaving it completely out
of the realm of possibility that there
is another alt
it doesn’t make any sense I didn’t think
the first one made any sense
so but I don’t think it will look
like it did last time I don’t think it
will be a rising tide raises all you
know ships or whatever like I don’t
think I don’t know this is not it this
is just there are so many people that I
know that I have talked to were like
looking desperately for a Avenue like
I’d like an opportunity to get out the
any kind of like sustained growth is
just going to be met with people so
happy that they can finally dump that I
don’t I think we’re a long way from
anything on that front
we’re gonna talk about this more later
in the show but I think it’s just a
symptom of you know when interest rates
get too low it’s the riskiest
investments that sometimes in the
short-term see the money for in because
when nothing is you know generating any
yield those dollars have to go somewhere
so a lot of times it’s the sketchiest
riskiest investments in a very short
term which is a category in which I’d
put all clients that see the biggest
benefit so yeah let’s talk about that
let’s talk about the financial markets
interest rates were just cut what is
what is going on here Jeff well I mean
it’s it’s interesting in a lot of
different ways you know I think this is
the first time that I can remember in my
life where our politicians have been
pretty open about the fact that the
stock market is just easily manipulable
by the central bank you know one of the
things I’ve talked about a lot over time
various outlets is I don’t think that
our stock market actually conveys
meaningful price information anymore at
all because I think it’s just so
beholden to you know central bank action
that we’re just really not getting any
meaningful you know price data price
communication by the market at all so I
think you know what’s happened is we’ve
seen the president just sort of
blatantly admit this and put pressure on
the central bank to keep rates low
because it helps short-term political
force and that I’m not even being
critical of that action because if
you’re if you’re in the current system
that we have today which is the system
that they all have to operate in all of
our politicians you’d be stupid
to do that I mean he’s basically just
the first guy that’s been smart enough
to take that sort of action so you know
I think that’s that’s my basic
perspective on what’s going on here at
least on the US level now your Europe is
talking negative rates doing negative
rates are we gonna see negative rates in
the United States are we is it
eventually gonna spill into the consumer
market Co banks charge negative rates on
savings accounts it’s my guess would be
there’s a definite possibility that we
could see it in retail markets but
usually most big proponents of negative
interest rates and believe it or not
there are a lot of people who not only
say we shouldn’t be afraid of negative
interest rates but that there are a
really good elegant solution to a lot of
problems usually when those type of
people make proposals there is some sort
of a de minimis cutoff that eliminates
most retail accounts from the negative
rate so for it’s something like you know
it might even be something like the FDIC
deposit limit where the first $250,000
of deposits are not subject to negative
rates you’ll probably see the negative
rates at least for a long time only
applied to very large deposits which
mostly are gonna end up being corporate
you know bank deposits all right all
right very good there were something
else I was going to ask about the
negative rate sister wink so yeah your
bizarre-o what’s it mean for Bitcoin
what what do you see all of this that’s
going on in the larger market what’s it
what’s it mean for Bitcoin I mean
everything’s good for Bitcoin in the
long term in seriousness and the long
term it is good for a good coin right
because it’s all these things are
acceleration ax stand on some level the
current system has to collapse it’s too
strong of a word but it has to have some
use a weird weird way to phrase this
there has to be some level of crisis to
the current system for Bitcoin to really
start to take off and a lot of us
including myself hope that that isn’t
like a complete and total collapse but
regardless of how strong that sort of
negative impact to our current financial
system needs to be
acceleration is amiss moves us further
in that direction so I think you know
certainly in the long term this is good
for Bitcoin in the short term we still
don’t know whether investors in general
sort of the broad scope of investors see
the value proposition of Bitcoin yet
well enough to understand that bitcoin
is a hedge against these issues and
there’s still a lot of investors that
therefore may still see Bitcoin as a
risk on asset and therefore in the short
term if there is you know a shaking
shaking of confidence in the market
there is certainly a possibility that
the coin could actually have short-term
price declines we just don’t know yet
whether the market at large has really
started to no longer view Bitcoin as a
risk or an asset yet but in the long
term definitely good all right everyone
found that like button guys Swan you I
think you’ve retweeted this guess
someone retweeting this the Fed will
print an additional 75 billion dollars
to correct the lending market that’s 129
billion injected as an emergency within
only a day they will apprentice much as
the entire market cap of Bitcoin now
that might some people argue about the
entire numbers behind that but I get the
point
the Fed is playing with tremendous
numbers here that a that are similar to
what bitcoin is worth right now so guys
what is your take on all this yeah just
the fact that like in a comparison of
market size it’s it’s pretty
extraordinary to think that like that’s
the amount of money just in an overnight
like a cuz I think the overnight
interest rates like shot up to like 5%
or something like that I even saw some
money say was it 10% yeah very briefly
shut up as high as 10% and they we still
I started to catch off me but we still
actually don’t know why there’s no like
official explanation it’s told why there
was that dry up and see that’s so that’s
so crazy though dude it just shows how
unbelievably fragile everything is like
it’s sitting on like the thinnest of ice
with cracks everywhere
and they’re just having to constantly
throw money to smother the fire and
obviously you know you end up putting
more fuel on it down the road and just
like bandra said that um like you can’t
there’s no way that it doesn’t
eventually go negative because there’s
no way out except a massive corrections
I don’t see how it doesn’t reach that
point even if it’s you know the u.s. is
one of the last ones to get there um and
we’ve already got what was it I think I
think it was like 15 some odd trillion
dollars of negative yielding like bonds
and stuff now I mean just like the whole
the whole space the fact that this is
being normalized
he’s absolutely insane that we’re we’re
totally just accepting and pretending
it’s completely legitimate to have
someone have the ability to consume to
consume scarce resources and get paid to
do so like that’s that’s absolutely nuts
like we could not have it more backwards
and while I think like Bitcoin is I like
you said still seen as a really risky
asset I think in the long term it’s just
going to be this obvious elephant in the
room for everything that they try to do
for like just just bringing up that
question like why is there no yield some
like everywhere why do we have to
constantly dump all of our money into
these crappy nonsensical projects like
like Jeff was talking about and like
over inflate all this stuff cuz people
are so desperate for yield they’re
desperate for like a real place to park
their money so I don’t know it’s crazy
discovered Bitcoin yet I’m glad we’ve
got the insider information here I think
the Fed will be able to keep all not
doing this we’ve got a lot of blind
people out there just be like happy with
whatever they do I think but at least we
know the right direction to go in
Christian what’s what’s up with you and
this whole situation so
add onto what guy was sitting and how
I’m saying the negative yields are and
especially in the bond market that’s
kind of where it’s happening first and
I’ve been thinking about this and when I
was in Riga talking to a lot of people
about this and it this idea kind of came
into my head that the bond market is
literally turning into a Ponzi scheme
the only way it’s profitable if there’s
negative yields on the bond which means
that you pay them to buy the bond is if
you’re expecting the interest rates to
go further down so that way you’re
negative bond is less negative yielding
than the newer ones and therefore it
will appreciate that way you could sell
it so it’s literally a Ponzi scheme
waiting waiting for you know yields to
go lower and for you to dump your
negative yields on you know whoever the
present buyer is so I mean that’s pretty
crazy
and I think that as Bitcoin gains it’s
windy it we’ve already already seeing it
now that it’s actually being injected
into the conversation on like serious
financial investing podcast pretty much
on the news every day on CNBC and other
things we’re seeing books all the time
so I think we are experiencing people
becoming aware of this and it becoming
very obvious and I would not be
surprised in in the next few years if
people seriously gets their Bitcoin did
you guys see Travis clean on CNN dice
that yeah I saw I saw some 120 watch it
actually what’d he say I he literally
did one of the most succinct like two
and a half or three minute explanation
of Bitcoin as hard money essentially
insurance on all of this negative
yielding like interest and the huge debt
imbalance that we have to deal with he
hid like a lot of the like name like
Austrian ideas and the fact that it was
immutable I mean it was it was the it
was an incredibly succinct like almost
Bitcoin maximalist narrative in an in an
open
discussion on CNN that I don’t know I
just just didn’t expect to see it even
when I see it on like CNBC it’s usually
buried under a lot of layers of
ignorance but his level of having
discovered it for himself just really
surprised me and in the fact that it was
immediately accepted as a legitimate
argument like as a real position which I
think anything like like six six years
ago it would have just gotten laughed
out of the room like like the whole
perspective on all this is changing
because I think there’s this is this
thing in the back of a lot of people’s
minds it’s like something is so broken
here like it can’t work like this and so
the discussion is getting wider and
Bitcoin is making its way into the edges
of all of these discussions and it just
it blows my mind what that was what do
you think about CNN having this crypto
crazy week they had because five days in
a row they had cryptocurrency people on
but like the guy you spoke up this is
this was a new thing you’re talking you
know off air you you brought up how
younger people that they think
differently about economics well now
older people are getting exposed to
Bitcoin also do you do any any thoughts
that they would they were actually
talking about this on CNN which is kind
of crazy if you would’ve told me four
years ago that’s funny I didn’t know
about like seeing in Bitcoin week that
if I see something on CNN it’s because
somebody shared it on twitter i reaiiy
don’t have any news but uh yeah that’s
that’s that’s crazy and particularly
like with the younger generations
there’s there’s a lot like bitcoin
magazine actually just had article about
a pax full survey and somebody else
doing a survey and I think as like
particularly as we get there there are
ten eleven year old kids right now they
have never lived in a world without
Bitcoin and as that extends forward like
it doesn’t matter what the hired like
the earlier generations older
generations actually get in terms of
education because those generations in
ten years
when those kid
they’re 20 years old they’re it’s not
even gonna be a question in fact in the
the survey they talked about it was like
they generally would like like Jen’s
ears and Millennials um had an
incredibly high proportion of people
that are totally open to investing in
Bitcoin new currencies and it was
actually getting up to similar
percentages I think it was like like low
twenties or something
whereas the avenues were like in the 30s
like 33 37 % like depending on what they
were asking about um but uh but that
it’s getting a comparable essentially I
don’t know the a comparable perception
from the from the younger generations
and that’s always going to be on the
table and I think the narrative is gonna
completely change when there are people
getting into that age group where
they’re the ones dominating the next run
of investments when they’re the ones
deciding what the next big companies are
gonna be and Bitcoin has just always
been there Bitcoin is just obvious as a
contender and it might be a bunch of 13
14 15 year-olds who can’t get a bank
account but they they’re gonna buy stuff
online like so something is going to
fill that need somewhere and Bitcoin and
cryptocurrencies really the only Avenue
for a lot of them so I think I don’t
know there’s gonna be a hell of a
foundation in five or six years yeah a
major move into the mainstream I like it
2028 having strong hand people those 10
year old today it won’t be buying gold
in 2028 they’ll be talking about that
2028 having found that like button
alright I want to go back to jet real
quick to a previous subject matter and
you can if you have something else we
want to bring up that you’ve been
meaning to say you say but my question
is what did happen the other night when
they had to inject that money into uh
what was what happened for reasons that
you know us being average slobs in
finance terms we’ll never know
probably there’s a lot of theories about
this kind of thing there there’s an
issue where banks tend to lend to each
other overnight so you know the whole
financial system essentially relies upon
this and I’m just giving you my
understanding of what happened as best I
know I’ll go into what we don’t know but
these banks all have to lend overnight
and to each other and typically a part
of that are the fact that US Treasury
dealers when they purchase Treasuries
from the federal government they don’t
have necessarily all the cash on hand to
do that nor do they need it in their
mind because they turn around and resell
those Treasuries they’re a dealer in
this case so they’re also borrowing you
know within this sort of market very
very short term funds so these are these
are like loans that are like eight or
twelve hours we’re talking about here so
these are typically very very very low
interest loans among very very very
credit worthy parties right so like in
other words if there’s any sort of loan
should bear a very low rate of interest
this is it cuz it’s all giant
institutions that all know each other
are lending to each other over very very
short timeframes and for reasons that I
have not yet heard a great explanation
there was just a shortage of lenders the
other night and as a result because
there was such a shortage of lenders the
interest rate shot up to insane levels
and the Federal Reserve had to step in
and sort of act as that lender of last
resort sort of a bizarre situation and
as I said as to why specifically a
couple nights ago this happened I have
not heard you know I don’t work in the
finance industry so I don’t have any
insider information and I haven’t heard
anything all that persuasive as to why
this happened it remains a mystery but I
do thank you for clarifying NASA
everyone does kind of this is there’s
all sorts of rumors going on and stuff
so we don’t exactly know but there you
go
okay moving back into the land of a pure
crypto here I want to ask the Christians
that you’ve been traveling the world you
might have a opinion on this tweet by
Vinny Lang ham defy is clearly go
to be the catalytic wave for the next
phase of the crypto evolution so is defy
the big catalyst of the next of the next
phase of the crypto evolution what’s up
with this defy I’ve been hearing a lot
about this lately Wow
so before I answer that question I kind
of wanted to add on to what Jeff was
saying and he said there wasn’t really
an explanation but I think that this is
a great example of just how fragile the
current system is like any small thing
could happen and then the Fed has to
step in so you know the system currently
is just kind of built on on sand and you
know the house is gonna fall at some
point and speaking of being built on
sand that kind of seems what deep is
built on this well I do a podcast with a
big Syrian person David Hoffman at
restless state podcast called POV crypto
but essentially it’s the Bitcoin burst
etherium podcast and defy might be the
most overly pump thing you can imagine
if anything the only thing aetherium is
being used for is a Ponzi scheme and
tether and tether is being used to buy
Bitcoin so eep is only strictly being
used to trade Bitcoin that is the only
use case for eath if you extrapolate
that out defy has a tiny tiny amount of
volume and usage on aetherium and it’s
quickly becoming extremely expensive for
all the etherium enthusiasts to play on
defy because tether is increasing the
gas fees so high so we’re seeing that
each one is having all of these issues
and that you know tether and other kind
of like centralized bad actors
quote-unquote are dumping their usage
onto the etherium block space and really
congesting aetherium and making it
difficult for these deep I apps to act
in terms of Vinny’s comments then he
says shit like this all the time so like
I don’t even know how to respond like
this is not the first time he said
something very bullish about some other
altcoin thing it seems like he’s
always going with whatever the trend is
and that’s probably why a lot people
consider him a counter indicator so I
don’t know personally I think Vinny is
probably smart and malicious aka he’s a
scammer and he’s just trying to dump his
bags but you could also consider him
incompetent just depends on your
perspective well couldn’t we just didn’t
he’ll also say that Civic before he kind
of like just stopped saying or talking
about it at all because you know it lost
people millions and millions of dollars
was going to revolutionize identity like
that was the most garbage coin ever he’s
still he’s still talking about the UH I
mean it’s just things Civic is this
thing he’s still talking about the
identity aspect of it a lot did
Christian you’re big you’re bold there
man he’s right down the road for you man
you got your good running to it I mean
he was at the event we were at all right
d4 so wait wait let’s since we had a guy
chime in there what is up with the UH
what is up with define in your mind then
I don’t know there might be something
there in just like a new use case for
and or like kind of a new business model
in an old industry like just in the idea
of finance and expanding a little bit
but in the context of like using a
theory ‘m or like I don’t know I’m
really skeptical it sounds like I don’t
know enough about it really to say
anything all I all I hear is kind of the
hype around it but it just sounds like
it just sounds like the old narrative
has died and it’s not working for them
anymore so like we got it we got a grab
onto the next one that’s gonna you know
bring that money in so until I see
something real I’m not it’s just it’s
just noise to me that I think it’s
actually really simple to see why defy
doesn’t work
lending right is based on trust the
entire foundation of lending is you
trust the per
you lend the money to to pay you back
and there’s different ways you can do
that either because you have a personal
relationship with the borrower or
because you’ve evaluated their trustful
their trustworthiness which is basically
what we call credit you know someone’s
credit score in a retail environment
through some other subjective means so
it doesn’t make sense to take something
where the whole foundation of this
activity is trust and try to move it to
a decentralized trustless model that’s
crazy you’re it’s just not what a
decentralized trustless model is built
for all right there’s there’s your
aetherium a segment of the show this
week guys hey I’m giving you the news I
mean being here in Israel this this past
week was blockchain week and there’s a
lot I mean there are a lot of people
that believe in a theory and there are a
lot of people building on it I will see
say this so we will will have to see how
this all how this all turns out
something is going to happen it’s it’s
either gonna work or it’s gonna be a
major fail and a lot of people really
disappointed I don’t know but yeah
Vinny’s talking some that’s a big claim
on his part there what he just said it’s
gonna be the catalyst of the next part
of the crypto revolution it doesn’t mean
with we shall see it will be I mean I’ve
got my popcorn and I got my Bitcoin
because yeah that’s that’s what I I’m
just I’m watchin it got nothing I don’t
have a horse in the etherium race man
that’s that’s why bitcoin is the next
Bitcoin and we shall see about the
future of a theory I’m here okay so
moving on to what are some other matters
here that I have written down
Kristen you talked about well Chris
you’ve been you’ve been traveling around
the world here what has this week
brought you in terms of and just just
meeting so many people I mean where have
you been
yes so I actually recently saw both both
guy and Jeff here – – in Dallas and in
in San Francisco so since pickle in 2019
this past June I’ve had the opportunity
and privilege to go to a pretty much
every Bitcoin conference so far I’m done
now but I recently went to Baltic
honeybadger in Riga as well as scaling
Bitcoin where I saw Adam in Tel Aviv so
it’s been an epic ride and I can’t
believe I get paid to do this so it was
definitely very fun and thank you to
Bitcoin Magazine for making it possible
but you know really just been seeing a
ton of them amazing people a lot of
great speakers Riga I really really
enjoyed just the vibe as well as you
know how many great people were getting
on stage and talking so you know could
not say hey you know better things about
Baltic honey badgers really fantastic
and in general bitcoiners are just
amazing so I always enjoy hanging out
with bitcoiners and it’s a great way to
spend a weekend so I highly recommend
going to to a legitimate Bitcoin event
anytime they’re always amazing whether
it’s big or small alright so there’s a
positive note now we’re gonna get into
it with Jeff about something that some
people don’t think is very positive Jeff
is a he’s an accountant he’s a lot of
things so since I had won the show why
not ask him about the IRS situation that
everybody likes to ask me now again now
the letters were sent out weeks ago now
but Jeff can you give us an update on
that situation yeah you know quick
disclaimer I’m an attorney a tax
attorney and a CPA but I’m not any of
your tax attorney or CPA hey so consult
with your own tax advisor that said if
you got one of these letters that came
in the mail from the IRS a few weeks
back just one thing I always tell
everyone is not to freak out about it
everyone whose name popped up in McKoy
based John Doe subpoena got one of these
and these are part of a broader category
of notices that we take in the industry
tend to refer to as IRS soft notices and
what a soft notice means it’s not a
notice that you per se have to respond
to it’s sort of the IRS just sending you
a letter saying hey
you may owe some additional tax here
maybe you didn’t claim this stuff take a
look back at your return and see if you
did it right if you didn’t file an
amendment if you did everything right
you don’t have to do anything and that’s
why it’s a soft notice it doesn’t
necessarily require a response in fact
most the time it doesn’t require a
response and in fact receiving it
doesn’t put you on any sort of a special
list of particularly suspicious people
it just means you’re someone that may
perhaps have to have a higher chance
than normal of needing to go back take a
look in a menu return so if you got one
of these notices go back look at the
return see if you claimed your stuff if
you didn’t contact your tax advisor or
file an amendment no big deal all right
guy I know you wanted to mention that
Edward Snowden yeah I just uh I was
curious to get everybody else’s opinion
illness to be honest because he’s his a
nubuck permanent record is excuse me
it’s coming out and it’s a Mac millon
Macmillan about publishing or whatnot
and um
supposedly he has a like his
non-disclosure and stuff agreements with
both the CIA and the NSA um well
obviously he’s been violating it since
since anybody knew who the name Snowden
was um but now they’re they’re going
after and trying to sue him over the
rights to the book because of the or sue
him over any ability to like make profit
from this as a violation of the
non-disclosure agreement um just because
they’re supposed to he’s supposed to
send all information to the CIA and the
NSA so that they can mark out anything
that he’s not supposed when like like
Snowden’s gonna do that but uh it’s just
a really interesting dynamic and
supposedly a part as part of the
agreement he’s not allowed to make
royalties off of anything like anything
where he talks about like the CIA or NSA
even if it’s like fiction that
supposedly he’s like like permanently
for the rest of his life he’s just not
able to
royalties off of that so I don’t I don’t
know it sounds like they’re gonna be
going after the publisher rather than
snowden and then everybody on Twitter’s
like set up a BTC pay server well bhai
your book under the table like I’d love
to I’d love to get a copy so it’s funny
it may very well it may very well be
real one of those things where it just
proves the use case of Bitcoin did like
it kind of laughing in the face of like
oh yeah you’re gonna control the market
well we’re just gonna print it ourselves
and ship it out and everybody’s gonna
use Bitcoin so I just think it’s a
really funny dynamic yeah I mean I think
if you guys want I can give a little
background on the legal reasons why
they’re going after the publisher and
what the attack vectors are here so the
issue would be you know Bitcoin or no
Bitcoin Snowden’s in Russia Russia’s
probably not going to enforce a u.s.
judgment against him so their only angle
to try and get at these proceeds is to
you know take action against the
publisher the publisher either I don’t I
don’t know the publishers to the cleese
headquartered in the United States
whether they’re headquartered in the US
where they have offices in the US or
whatever the court system of the United
States is going to have jurisdiction
over the publisher so that’s why you
would go after the the publisher in this
case so even if you were to start
accepting Bitcoin for the books it
really wouldn’t matter because the
publisher would still be subject to the
US courts and the government could get
paid that way really the thing is he
would have to start from a legal
perspective selling the book directly
without the publishers involvement to
really get this off because then you
know he’s in Russia so they can’t come
knock down his door and you know hold
him in jail for contempt of court and
then he and the publisher you know
they’re not involved so they wouldn’t be
an attack vector either so that’s really
what you know the issue is going to be
in terms of the royalties and the
financial end of this you know for
instance if he was accepting Fiat but
selling without a public he had been
selling in Fiat
even if he didn’t have a publisher in
the US and was selling directly to the
consumer the issue would be that the
u.s. court system would still have
jurisdiction over visa master
car discover American Express or even if
he wasn’t taking credit cards and he was
just accepting you know dollars over a
CH or something whatever banking came at
rail was transmitting in the funds the
u.s. court system would easily get
jurisdiction over and yet to be able to
stop those payments so in order to sell
directly to the consumer in this
situation he both have to not have the
publisher involved and be selling
essentially with Bitcoin directly to the
consumer alright thank you for that
clarification Kristen do you have any
thoughts on me edward snowden’s it could
be expected and excited to see what
happens next excited to see if he goes
hard on to Bitcoin and cryptocurrency
and continues trying to sell the book
but yeah popcorn and just waiting I just
feel like you know there’s just dominoes
have effects happening and you know
things are gonna continue going in
bitcoins way awesome
I’m Jeff I want to before the show you
talk about the craziness over at we work
there IPO and it’s how it’s related to
the crazy financial situation of the
world today to talk about that song we
work being a unicorn is really the same
phenomenon as an altcoin pump right I
mean where when yields get low dollars
have to chase some crazy investments
just to maintain their value or grow and
I think we works a good example of this
you have a company that has all these
insanely wacky stories about how its
managed like it just came out this week
that the CEOs wife if she would talk to
you and you were an employee and she got
a bad vibe the CEO would fire you even
after a five-minute conversation or just
a seemingly innocent conversation and
just other bizarre things about the
management team trafficking drugs
interstate or internationally in their
Jets I mean they were using it for
recreational use not for resale but
still that’s obviously a major felony on
you know on a company jet things like
that just an example of you know just
like all coins pumping yields go down
because the those investments have to
find somewhere where they can get some
yield if the
same thing with these companies you’ll
see unicorns get made that seemingly
have no business at all being unicorns
ouch all right guys you wanted to bring
up you want to bring up the youth again
you had something to say yeah yes so
really right along those same lines with
the whole we work in the I think is a
great analogy to say that it’s a lot of
these like crap stocks that are um like
having huge explosive like IPOs and
stock valuations that make no sense
whatever whatsoever is really very
analogous to the whole altcoin bubble
and it’s people again like looking for
yield and a in a literally a global
market that is non-existent of it like
because our imbalances are so bad but in
conjunction with that and then you’ve
got these things like the financial
cracks I did just an overnight lending
it takes the takes the interest rate
from 2% to 10% in a matter of hours
small move that’s a huge move in the
interest rate in a matter of hours so
we’re getting an insane level of
volatility because it’s obvious that
we’re sitting on cracks in our financial
system and that we’ve built all this on
top of sand so traditional assets that
have seemed safe and secure and
slow-moving for ages and the stock
market in general is going to get more
and more volatile as we move into the
deeper and core sort of the back end of
these imbalances starting to play
themselves out and with the paxville
survey on with the Bitcoin magazine
article they talked about what were the
biggest hindrances for the younger
generations for the Millennials for the
Jin Z’s for investing in those versus
traditional assets and the top concerns
actually were not like education or like
understanding it which is probably just
a it’s probably just a result of
ignorance not the fact that they don’t
it’s probably just they don’t think they
need to understand it now do they
actually get it but that’s actually a
indication that they just see it as like
a part of the market so it’s not really
important but so that was like a 14% but
in the 30% range their biggest concerns
were volatility and lack of trust and
when you starts to introduce a lack of
trust into the traditional supposedly
safe markets and then at the same time
we have this incredible underlying like
gonna sneak up on you at any moment
volatility in the safe traditional
markets
well Bitcoin doesn’t look a whole lot
different except for the fact that it’s
going up and has lots of yields so I
think the that narrative is going to
shift a lot when the safe havens look
just as risky as all the alternatives so
I don’t know I just thought it was funny
that those two big concerns were the
reason they supposedly invest in
traditional markets when those two big
concerns are literally what is falling
apart in the traditional markets I hope
they the 20% smart ones will at least I
mean some people just blindly do with
you know their parents did or what they
think is the right thing all right
Christian I want to ask you about I I
think I’ll ask everyone about this but
you probably heard their necks solid X
they withdrew their ETF application yeah
yeah yeah that’s that’s what’s going on
is that a big deal Christian so I think
that both Jeff and guy probably are
better to ask this question to but
generally speaking from my understanding
a couple weeks ago they had announced
that they’re gonna create a similar
product to gbtc which is what a digital
currency group does and that is a
product that you a lot of people can get
on like fidelity or something like that
and it’s not an ETF but some other form
of investable Bitcoin product it usually
has a premium so I think that because
they announce that they’re doing that
kind of makes sense that once again
they’re gonna pull this thing back it
seems like this is kind of political
like this process seems very political
instead of in objective process so I
don’t really know exactly you know what
all of this means and how they’re trying
to play this game it seems like Vanek is
our friend and they are friends at
Bitcoin and I like what Kapur says on
Twitter so I’m you know I think that
they’re doing their best to bring this
product to the market so we’ll see you
know how and when it’s gonna happen it
seems like there’s a lot of demand for
it so yeah we’d love to hear what Jeff
and guy want to say I mean that was a
good take on the situation yeah
Jeff what do you what do you have to say
so
yeah I agree Christian’s mostly on point
they’re absolutely van X product the way
I understand it is a little bit
different from GPT see all of their
structurally pretty much the same when I
say different just different in their
target market so gbtc is a sort of a
closed-end fund which Christian says
means it actually typically trades at a
premium to just holding Bitcoin yourself
but the reason the primary driver a gbtc
adoption is because it’s available on
platforms like fidelity retail investors
can buy it easily without having to
understand Bitcoin and it also means
they can buy it on those platforms
within the context of an IRA or 401k or
other retirement account very briefly a
bit of shameless self-promotion for
myself I offer a product where you can
buy Bitcoin in your IRA or other
retirement account hold the keys
yourself not have to deal with gbtc and
not pay a premium so hit me up on
Twitter if that sounds good to you
moving on to the van eck situation van x
products the target market is a little
bit different in that it’s only going to
be available to institutions so van X
current product even if you have even if
you want to buy into it it’s going to be
limited to large institutions so it’s a
different target and those institutions
it really does make sense for them
because they typically under their own
regulations would
be allowed oftentimes to custody their
own Bitcoin that would be too high of a
liability for them so for those sorts of
organizations I think the Vanek product
that they are in fact coming out with
makes sense it’s notable to keep in mind
that even when van X ETF product was the
application was still pending before
they would Druitt the van eck ETF was
not a retail ETF they were going to set
the share price high enough such that it
would only be available to large
institutions so well in that respect
there’s really no change they their
approach and I don’t know anybody have
an act but what their approach seems to
be from all the public information that
I have is that they first really want to
nail this sort of thing down as an
institutional product before they even
think about moving in a retail investor
direction all right but now ETF talk
through social media
Bitcoin social media it’s been so huge
over the last two years I say we’re just
a day closer to someone finally getting
this thing off the getting a real ETF
off the ground Christian says it is
political I agree I mean there’s a lot
there’s a lot of politics behind this do
you see so pulling this off in 2020 I
don’t think the ETF actually matters at
the retail level because I think before
an ETF gets approved Ameritrade and or
fidelity are just gonna offer direct
custody of Bitcoin and their normal
everyday you know discount brokerage
accounts they’re both working on it
so that kind of almost makes an etf move
I mean if fidelity and Ameritrade do
that it’s gonna really lower the market
for an ETF right because a lot of people
would just get in and out of Bitcoin
even if they don’t want to hold their
own keys using you know what’s fidelity
in a meritorious count brokers would
follow so I think it’s more likely that
we’re gonna see something like that
before we see an ETF just because it
won’t require as rigorous of you know
compliance issues guys one yeah I was
that was that was my thought on the
whole thing is that
I think it was a really good like height
thing that everybody got super excited
about and but really the whole whole
that whole period has just died down and
it’s now kind of old news like I didn’t
even know about it until you were just
talking about it and it looks like back
is still moving forward on fidelity I’ve
been like trying to stay up to date
because they put doing I’ve been really
surprised at how like technically
proficient and health thorough they are
and their understanding a bit coining
like what cryptocurrencies are actually
used for and Bitcoin is such a versatile
asset being programmable and with all
these like shared custody
well like systems and the shared key
stuff that is become more moral a norm
in like all my main wallets right and
our all multi SIG’s except for SATs app
which talks to a multi sig and so it’s
like it really is the game is changing
really quick and I think I think if it
takes another year for an ETF to come
out we’ll have alternatives that are
better and more direct to the point that
the market won’t care um just like he
said you’ll have custody with fidelity
and Ameritrade and every major one
that’s worth their salt that it just
won’t I just won’t matter you’ll have so
many avenues that it’s not important
it’ll be a moot point like Jeff said
okay well we have reached the end here
of this show but everyone I want to give
everybody a chance to give their
conclusionary remarks bring up any
stories they didn’t they wanted to bring
up again all these guys are linked to
below they’re their Twitter’s so you can
investigate them DM them and talk to
them
we’ll start with Christian what’s what’s
up man anything that got left out and
you wanted to bring up anything
San Francisco how’s Libra down Adam
first of all thanks a lot for having me
on the show you always get the best
panel together for Friday so honored to
be included yet again
in terms of Libra I think that they’re
showing why decentralisation because it
seems like every government is targeting
them
not much to say there except for a nice
case study and lastly San Francisco is
beautiful happy to be back and I hope to
stay put for a little bit but I think I
hate everything I need to say
I think Adam gives the best advice
strong hands long-term thinking by the
dip all right town that like button
people long-term thinking the full
gratification alright Jeff what’s up any
thoughts I didn’t ask you about Libra so
I asked you about Libra too uh well all
right so before I get into that I one
thing I do want to mention that didn’t
come up so as I mentioned before my day
job is a product where you can hold
Bitcoin in your IRA and holds your own
keys no markup but I’m also involved as
a volunteer in the BTC Pei server
project both as developer of plugins and
the Python library for BTC pay and also
on BTC pay sort of newest project which
is the BTC pay foundation I don’t know
if any of you guys have gotten a chance
to hear about that but that’s a way for
businesses that rely on Bitcoin can
actually provide sponsorship to the BTC
pay server development team which really
really helps keeping BTC pay server as a
robust merchants solution and I’m a
reversed a robust non-custodial solution
for accepting Bitcoin it’s really
important to keep in mind a lot of these
developers that work on BTC pay not me
my contributions to BTC pay are pretty
small but a lot of these other guys work
either full-time or nearly full-time BTC
PI server and until now I haven’t been
able to make any money off of it all
it’s been entirely volunteer so with the
foundation this gives away for
businesses and we really want to thank
of course Square as the first business
that made a grant to the BTC pay
foundation can show their support for
BTC pay server and then that money ends
up going to the developers that really
makes or what make BTC pay great so I
really would have been remiss if I
didn’t mention that before we closed
here for the day to go on
Libra libras dead I think it’s pretty
obvious the the European Union is not
gonna allow it in the EU and I think
that’s going to effectively you know for
the most part be the end of it unless
they launched it on a much smaller scale
only in developing nations they could
try and do something like that but even
that would be difficult and would be a
maybe not the opportunity not nearly as
ambitious and opportunity as they were
seeking Wow well I had heard that about
we project a very very interesting we
will go to God you get the last word man
yeah that was actually just read the
blog like yesterday about the square
crypto um like grant so BTC b7 that was
really awesome at the had gotten
forgotten that you were actually
involved in that um but that’s really
cool I’ve been I’ve been trying to
trying to follow that more closely and I
still I still have not set up my own BTC
PI server I feel like a failure as a
Bitcoin maximalist but uh yeah I just
direct people to the show um if if you
want to hear like I’m coming up on 300
quick reads now for like Bitcoin
articles and like essays and papers all
around the space like to make audio book
versions for them and I finally the
library has gotten so big now that I’ve
been going back and being like I need a
refresher on like some old lightning
stuff or like topics around like energy
energy conservation or the cost of
energy and proof of work and stuff so I
will go back and I can’t remember you
know 300 I mean how many hundreds maybe
even a thousand hours worth of content
now so I’ve been going back and
listening myself for the first time in
the last couple of weeks and it’s been
kind of funny but yeah that’s the the
crypto economy podcast and I also I will
gladly accept recommendations I I love
it when somebody finds an article that I
didn’t know about so I can read cuz I
read all all the Bitcoin things and I
just I just want to have I want to have
the best collection out there
unmanageable
so yeah just
direct people there yeah man you are
definitely in motion is a very original
idea that you have that you just read
the articles you read it and people can
look as a lot of people can’t they can’t
breathe anymore so they’re better
they’re better with the listening
comprehension and you put it all out
there I think it’s a really it’s a
really original idea and it’s it serves
a great uh serves a great need in the
community well dudes preciate it and
thanks for having me on the show by the
way man
this this was great and I’ve had I’ve
had a lot of fun I thank I thank all of
you for returning to the show you’re
none of you are rookies you’ve all been
here before
it’s great to have a veteran panel it’s
great to have this combo I had no idea
that y’all met up beforehand I answer in
Dallas or something like that you go
that’s great that’s awesome it’s a small
world out here
but hey the best guest in the space we
do this show every Friday of course I do
a new show every single day here on the
bitcoinmeister channel Fridays that this
weekend big coin show Saturday’s the
beyond big coin show so you’ll see me
there very soon i’m adam meister the
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saturday baba Zia